Human mini-brains in rats

Debi

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Human Mini-Brains Growing Inside Rat Bodies Are Integrating | Inverse

tem cell technology has advanced so much that scientists can grow miniature versions of human brains — called organoids, or mini-brains if you want to be cute about it — in the lab, but medical ethicists are concerned about recent developments in this field involving the growth of these tiny brains in other animals. Those concerns are bound to become more serious after the annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience starting November 11 in Washington, D.C., where two teams of scientists plan to present previously unpublished research on the unexpected interaction between human mini-brains and their rat and mouse hosts.

In the new papers, according to STAT, scientists will report that the organoids survived for extended periods of time — two months in one case — and even connected to lab animals’ circulatory and nervous systems, transferring blood and nerve signals between the host animal and the implanted human cells. This is an unprecedented advancement for mini-brain research.

“We are entering totally new ground here,” Christof Koch, president of the Allen Institute for Brain Science in Seattle, told STAT. “The science is advancing so rapidly, the ethics can’t keep up.”

That mini-brains can even be grown in the lab is a huge advancement in the first place, as they have many of the same characteristics as living human brains that are in the early stages of development. Though they’re not “alive” in the same sense that you and I are, they grow and are organized into different layers like our brains are. They even react in similar ways to stimuli like psychedelic drugs. Organoids are poised to revolutionize research on the human brain since scientists can perform tests on them that would be unethical to attempt on living humans.

Scientists have debated whether these brains are “conscious,” but the fact that they could be successfully implanted in lab animals raises a whole new set of ethical concerns for the researchers who work with them. One of the major concerns in the mini-brain scenario is that these organoids could grow to more advanced levels within lab animals, making the debate about mini-brain consciousness much more urgent.

Putting human brain structures into non-human animals creates a thorny ethical area that raises people’s fears about medical research going too far into unfamiliar territory — and too quickly. It’s likely to be a recurring theme in this field, too. In January, Salk Institute researchers developed human-pig chimeras, creating the possibility that pigs with human brain cells might also develop human consciousness.

STAT also reports that a third lab, in addition to the two presenting at the Society for Neuroscience meeting, has successfully connected human brain organoids to blood vessels. This attempt veered into such challenging ethical territory, though, that the lab reportedly paused its efforts.
 
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Debi, you know I was taken aback (way, way aback) when you posted the preceding story announcing these brains. Now we hear that someone has planted them inside of mice and rats. I doubt these scientists can actually conceive of the many ways in which this could go wrong.

Did I miss it or did they ever describe where the original cells came from? I’m thinking about quantum entanglement for example possibly tying the host/source to their offspring mini-brains.

This story doesn’t sound like it’s going to be any better in chapter three.
 
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Putting human brain structures into non-human animals creates a thorny ethical area that raises people’s fears about medical research going too far into unfamiliar territory — and too quickly. It’s likely to be a recurring theme in this field, too. In January, Salk Institute researchers developed human-pig chimeras, creating the possibility that pigs with human brain cells might also develop human consciousness.
That type of thinking annoys me,like animals have no consciousness.I suppose it's good people feel that way when they see pigs in horror intensive farms.I believe all animals have the same level of consciousness as us,no lower or higher,we are all the same.
 
Human Mini-Brains Growing Inside Rat Bodies Are Integrating | Inverse
...Scientists have debated whether these brains are “conscious,” but the fact that they could be successfully implanted in lab animals raises a whole new set of ethical concerns for the researchers who work with them....

These concerns relate to the debate over the true nature of consciousness. The scientists involved in this project of course believe that consciousness is generated by the brain like bile is produced by the liver. Paranormal advocates believe consciousness (especially human consciousness) exists separate and apart from the brain. The higher entity decides or chooses whether to inhabit the physical brain and body and manifest in the physical world through it. If this is true, supposedly the higher entity (soul) would not choose to inhabit such a "frankenbrain".
 
These concerns relate to the debate over the true nature of consciousness. The scientists involved in this project of course believe that consciousness is generated by the brain like bile is produced by the liver. Paranormal advocates believe consciousness (especially human consciousness) exists separate and apart from the brain. The higher entity decides or chooses whether to inhabit the physical brain and body and manifest in the physical world through it. If this is true, supposedly the higher entity (soul) would not choose to inhabit such a "frankenbrain".

That’s a comforting position. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Either way, the brain of the species belongs in the body it came with. Let's not mix that up and play God, since no one truly knows what consciousness is or where it comes from for sure. I'm quite sure the rat/pig/animal would prefer it's original brain just as we would. Let's keep the parts original to the species as I'm pretty sure the rats involved are not volunteers for this experiment.
 
Did I miss it or did they ever describe where the original cells came from? I’m thinking about quantum entanglement for example possibly tying the host/source to their offspring mini-brains.
I remember your initial reaction to the story, and I also remember mentioning in the past that if they are talking about it now, they've already done what they are proposing to do, so Chapter 3 won't be any better.

Been thinking of the quantum angle. Bringing it down to what we do know of transplants, the recipient of a transplant organ has often been noted to suddenly gain qualities of the host, such as certain tastes or even abilities. This tells us that something is passed along to the host...whether that is through DNA/genetics or quantum effect. Bottom line is I don't think scientists are even looking at that part of it. Perhaps it will take a rat suddenly playing Bach before they do.

All life is precious...but there are some things that should simply not be done from an ethical standpoint.
 
Perhaps it will take a rat suddenly playing Bach before they do.
Lol,that's hilarious.I have heard rats have beaten uni students at solving maze puzzles,so maybe it's not that unbelievable.
 
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I remember your initial reaction to the story, and I also remember mentioning in the past that if they are talking about it now, they've already done what they are proposing to do, so Chapter 3 won't be any better.

Been thinking of the quantum angle. Bringing it down to what we do know of transplants, the recipient of a transplant organ has often been noted to suddenly gain qualities of the host, such as certain tastes or even abilities. This tells us that something is passed along to the host...whether that is through DNA/genetics or quantum effect. Bottom line is I don't think scientists are even looking at that part of it. Perhaps it will take a rat suddenly playing Bach before they do.

All life is precious...but there are some things that should simply not be done from an ethical standpoint.

You are right. But for the sake of the scientists I hope that one of those human minded rats doesn’t stand up and start singing “Weird Science”. I think a couple of white lab coats would be in urgent need of some bleaching.
 
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