Another school official who needs firing.

[surge]

Of course it's only an allegation at this point, and must be investigated. You know, in case those elementary students conspired to tell a lie.

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/article_be97b450-50b9-5bc0-bc39-8bb45adf6fc3.html

 

[Lazarus]

Man, I just cannot agree with them being fired. But understand, I grew up in an era of real corporal punishement, and had a few paddlings growing up, which mean when I got home I got punished as well. The punishment depended upon the degree of the infraction at school.

Walking outside is not what I would call punishment, but for kids who spend their youth sitting in front of a screen, gaming, indeed it perhaps is. When I was in school, walking on a dirt track would not have been considered punishment. Boy oh boy, have the times changed.

My late wife was a public school teacher. She retired early (after 25 years) because she could no longer bear the brats and potty mouths. We too took corporal punishment out of our schools, and the results have been disasterous. More than once did she call the single mom to let her know her child had called her a mother###### in class, and in each time their response was basically, " well what did you do to my child to make him or her curse you?" Finally she had enough and retired.

Look, children learn when they are young through pain. So when I stuck my finger into a light socket when I was 7, I only did that once. Ad all of the animal kingdom learn valuable lessons by the pain which the behavior caused. And nothing has ever worked so well.

If you do not use some pain when they are young, to teach, I can certainly assure you that the cops, when these kids get grown, will beat the hell out of you, for something you should have learned not to do when you were younger. So, use a little discomfort now, to avoid serious injury in the future. I believe fully in this.

Why is it that the kids today are rogues when compared to my generation? I feel it is because my parents and teachers would not allow such behavior and would punish that behavior in the most basic learning tool we and the other animals have always utilized. What does a dog do if one of the pups bites too hard when sucking at the teat? Mine always got their attention, and taught them, by nipping at them. Not too hard of course, but just enough to teach.

We are raising up the most inconsiderate humans we have ever raised. And society reflects that. For we are society, the inner manifests as the outer, and if the inside isn't orderly, respectful, how can the outer be any different?

Real life is still filled with pain, when we act wrongly, even if you are an adult. So, we need to minimize the later real pain, by corporal punishment. For if it did not work, human beings would have never chosen to use it.

 

[surge]

Lazarus, I agree with what you say. I went to school during a time when we got paddled for misbehaving, and then when my folks found out about it I was punished at home too. I don't consider the kids being made to walk to be the fireable offense. It's this bit here that pisses me off: "...teachers were told not to give the children any water while they walked."

I understand that if they are being punished you don't want them stopping every five minutes for water, but certainly a water break after a half hour or so would have been prudent? Better to be safe than sorry, and all that. Suppose one of the children was asthmatic? Would he or she have been allowed to stop walking if they had an attack? Or would they have been deemed to be faking? I doubt the principle bothered to check school files for any possible medical conditions before ordering the walk.

 

[Debi]

Lazarus, I agree with what you say. I went to school during a time when we got paddled for misbehaving, and then when my folks found out about it I was punished at home too. I don't consider the kids being made to walk to be the fireable offense. It's this bit here that pisses me off: "...teachers were told not to give the children any water while they walked."

I understand that if they are being punished you don't want them stopping every five minutes for water, but certainly a water break after a half hour or so would have been prudent? Better to be safe than sorry, and all that. Suppose one of the children was asthmatic? Would he or she have been allowed to stop walking if they had an attack? Or would they have been deemed to be faking? I doubt the principle bothered to check school files for any possible medical conditions before ordering the walk.

OK, boys...let's just break this down to the bottom line here! (ALERT! ANGRY MAMA BEAR PRESENT!) First, it is stated that the practice of wearing regular clothes on the LAST day of school for 5th graders (which this was) had been allowed in the past. Some teachers and parents were under the impression this was still allowed. I can guarantee you no parents sent their kids to school that day looking to just break a rule. They had to give their kids permission to dress in regular clothing. This was NOT the children's fault! Miscommunication between administration, teachers and parents is what went wrong here. TO PUNISH THESE KIDS FOR THE FAULT OF ADULTS IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! The guy who ordered these kids to walk is the idiot/culprit here!

Simply picking up the phone and calling parents to bring in the uniforms should have solved the problem. Withholding water and force marching 5th graders is just beyond any level of common sense.

Now, Laz...as for those kids who's mouths are bigger than their brain size, who are disruptive, who are out to make life hell for the teachers, I agree with you. But in this instance, it was a communication problem between adults and making the kids pay the price is over the line. ***Mother Bear now marches back to her den***

 

[Lazarus]

Lazarus, I agree with what you say. I went to school during a time when we got paddled for misbehaving, and then when my folks found out about it I was punished at home too. I don't consider the kids being made to walk to be the fireable offense. It's this bit here that pisses me off: "...teachers were told not to give the children any water while they walked."

I understand that if they are being punished you don't want them stopping every five minutes for water, but certainly a water break after a half hour or so would have been prudent? Better to be safe than sorry, and all that. Suppose one of the children was asthmatic? Would he or she have been allowed to stop walking if they had an attack? Or would they have been deemed to be faking? I doubt the principle bothered to check school files for any possible medical conditions before ordering the walk.

Hey man, I agree with you. I missed the lack of water part. One thing to have students walk, quite another to deny water intake. That is an offense worthy of job termination. The teachers of my day would have never done something like that. Our teachers were smarter, more intelligent and there is a good reason for this. When I was in school, there were very few women in high business, and so they became nurses and teachers, with a lot of them going into teaching. So we had the best and the brightest in my youth, for there were not as many avenues for women to exceed professionally. And boy was my generation and the ones before us really blessed.

 

[Lazarus]

You know, this idea of corporal punishment got me to thinking about how I raised up my own kids. As turned out, my oldest daughter never needed a spanking, for a stern voice would suffice in all cases. My youngest was alas as I was at that age, and was stubborn, and seemed able to understand all words except, "no'. And so she got spanked. But I was never angry, for if I felt anger, I would not have spanked. I wanted to teach, not use her as an object to take my anger out on. Now, while the spankings worked on me when growing up, they did not work on my youngest. So, I stopped the spanking, and took away cartoons. (she was a cartoon fanatic) which actually helped. But no one could have broken that stubbornness completely, but I still punished. Thankfully she grew up to be a beautiful human being, in all of the important areas.

 

[Debi]

You know, this idea of corporal punishment got me to thinking about how I raised up my own kids. As turned out, my oldest daughter never needed a spanking, for a stern voice would suffice in all cases. My youngest was alas as I was at that age, and was stubborn, and seemed able to understand all words except, "no'. And so she got spanked. But I was never angry, for if I felt anger, I would not have spanked. I wanted to teach, not use her as an object to take my anger out on. Now, while the spankings worked on me when growing up, they did not work on my youngest. So, I stopped the spanking, and took away cartoons. (she was a cartoon fanatic) which actually helped. But no one could have broken that stubbornness completely, but I still punished. Thankfully she grew up to be a beautiful human being, in all of the important areas.

I've never been a fan of corporal punishment. I have always looked for what was my kids currency....like your daughter and her cartoons. Whatever they valued most was what I worked with. At the time my oldest was in school, they still used corporal punishment in the school system. I remember at the end of 8th grade, the school outlawed the use of the paddle. At the end of the school year, the principal and vice principal autographed the school paddle and presented it to my son, who proudly brought it home like a trophy, since it had crossed his behind more than most. (He was my wild child!) It actually worked better to take away the things he valued most after that, including in school. Days spent in in-school detention had a bigger impact than that paddle. He hated being locked away from his social time at school, sitting in the principals office off in a corner. Also used that approach at home with no social time when he acted up, as he was social King of the neighborhood.

The few times I spanked my kids involved physical danger....like my youngest one out taunting an alligator or the oldest one running out in front of a car at 3. Then they needed to know that the danger was a physical one and could cause pain. But for the other life lessons, taking away what they valued was of much higher impact with them.

 

[surge]

TO PUNISH THESE KIDS FOR THE FAULT OF ADULTS IS WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

You are right, of course. I was more focused on the withholding of water as my trigger, but it was definitely wrong to punish the children in the first place for something that wasn't their fault. Sounds to me like someone was on a power trip, and it could have been raining outside with lightning flashing and the kids would have been forced to stay out and walk just to prove a point. I don't understand why parents aren't storming the walls over this one.

Hey man, I agree with you. I missed the lack of water part. One thing to have students walk, quite another to deny water intake. That is an offense worthy of job termination. The teachers of my day would have never done something like that. Our teachers were smarter, more intelligent and there is a good reason for this. When I was in school, there were very few women in high business, and so they became nurses and teachers, with a lot of them going into teaching. So we had the best and the brightest in my youth, for there were not as many avenues for women to exceed professionally. And boy was my generation and the ones before us really blessed.

Good point about the best and brightest. I think teaching is suffering from the same problem as law enforcement is - people who wouldn't have qualified for the job a generation ago are now populating the field. As a result, the lowest common denominator is lowered and students are suffering for it.