Talking about things weird.....

ozentity

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And that right there is why I dont "ghost hunt" or try to contact anything on that side of the paranormal
I can understand people's interest at trying to prove or whatever but I feel it's potentially dangerous to your psyche and intruding in some way.
 
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Paulm

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I can understand people's interest at trying to prove or whatever but I feel it's potentially dangerous to your psyche and intruding in some way.
i understand the interest or curiosity of "is there life after death" or what is after death, but for a lot of the people involved it has become just trying to prove the existence of ghosts or spirits, which still dousnt answer the original curiosity in the least. but it does open the door to negative energies which may or may not be what they actually think they are. so either way the original question still remains. so why chance it...lol
 
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titch2k6

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I find some of the comments that you are all making really interesting and I would like to put some of them into context in relation to this post.

I am not attempting to force my own beliefs upon you - I respect everyone too much to do that. I am just offering possible alternative explanations, keeping within the subject of the original post, as further discussion points.

Oz: I agree with everything except this part. I don't believe anyone's soul is bad or evil, just they have a badly wired brain and when they die the evil thoughts die too.

But, as science states, all emotions exist as some form of energy. As this energy is a collective of the human energy field, when someone dies, their thoughts and emotions must remain with the field as, again, according to science, it cannot be destroyed as it is a part of the Universal Energy Field.

I suppose really, we have to define what the human 'soul' actually is. Is it plausible to conclude that the human energy field is what we call the soul? After all, it is our very essence - it is what makes us human. Without it, we are literally nothing and could not exist. It is the thing, according to science, that binds all the atoms and molecules to form organs, bone and skin; forms blood, hair and brain signals; forms emotions, thoughts and our senses. We are a species that are simply energy stored in mass particle form.

This is true for everything in our Universe. The solid oak wooden table in your living room exists as energy. It binds the atoms and molecules that make up its physical form. The same is true for animals, structures, plants and even the very air we breathe. This is what scientists refer to as the Universal Energy Field.

Oz: I think negative hauntings are from non human entities but they may have had a part in influencing the not very nice person when alive.

I believe that there are negative, positive and evil energies in this world. Negative and positive hauntings can be formed from both human energy forms and non-human energy forms (i.e. elementals). Evil hauntings are solely from non-human energy forms and are typically what we consider as demonic.

Keeping in relation to the subject at hand, if a person's thoughts (which exist in an energy form) are negative at the time of their living, then it can be presumed that when the body dies, and their energy is released, then the negative energies - in the form of negative thoughts - would remain.

I like using the Herb Baumeister case as an example of how someone who is 'negative' in life can be 'negative' in the afterlife. The Fox Hollow Farm case has been documented by many investigative groups as very haunted. There are three entities that are said to be very common to the farm. Two of these have been identified, through communication, as victims of Herb Baumeister (Alan Broussard and Roger Goodlet) and are generally non-aggressive. The third entity, believed to be Herb himself, is an extremely negative entity. He will attack people in the form of scratches and bites, and it is said that anyone swimming in the pool will feel, at times, as though they are being held down under the water.

I truly believe that if you have 'negativity' in life, you take that with you in death. And the explanation for this lays with the human energy field.

Oz: I may be wrong but I just don't think a soul is anything but love.

LOL - I am not singling you out Oz :hearteyes: You just make some good points and comments in your posts.

As Haddaway says, "What is love?".

Love is an emotion. According to science, an emotion exists as an energy form and forms part of the human energy field. So, again, I ask the question: is it not plausible to conclude that the human energy field is what we call the soul?

Paulm: i understand the interest or curiosity of "is there life after death" or what is after death, but for a lot of the people involved it has become just trying to prove the existence of ghosts or spirits, which still dousnt answer the original curiosity in the least. but it does open the door to negative energies which may or may not be what they actually think they are. so either way the original question still remains. so why chance it...lol

It is not the case of trying to find out if there is 'life' after death, but in general, is there some sort of existence after we die. I do not believe there is a 'life' in the sense once we pass on, however, I do believe that there is some sort of existence for the human energy field. Seeking evidence for energies in our plane of existence, which we call 'ghosts' or spirits, is an integral and active part of that study.

I think all humans, in general, hold a hope that death is not the end of us. In the Universal 'bigger picture', we want to believe that we do not just spend our time on this planet and then that is it. A lot of people believe that there has to be more. Studying subjects such as reincarnation suggests that there quite possibly maybe.

There are also others, like myself, that have experienced a haunting. It changes you and your outlook on life. In me, I wanted to understand what I had experienced and why. My experiences as a child in the family home at the time has always been my driving force for going into the field of the paranormal, specifically hauntings, at a later stage in my life and as I understood more about what paranormal was.
 

Paulm

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It is not the case of trying to find out if there is 'life' after death, but in general, is there some sort of existence after we die. I do not believe there is a 'life' in the sense once we pass on, however, I do believe that there is some sort of existence for the human energy field. Seeking evidence for energies in our plane of existence, which we call 'ghosts' or spirits, is an integral and active part of that study.

I think all humans, in general, hold a hope that death is not the end of us. In the Universal 'bigger picture', we want to believe that we do not just spend our time on this planet and then that is it. A lot of people believe that there has to be more. Studying subjects such as reincarnation suggests that there quite possibly maybe.

There are also others, like myself, that have experienced a haunting. It changes you and your outlook on life. In me, I wanted to understand what I had experienced and why. My experiences as a child in the family home at the time has always been my driving force for going into the field of the paranormal, specifically hauntings, at a later stage in my life and as I understood more about what paranormal was.
i agree and actually that is what i was referring to as far as the question being "life after death", that is just a generic term for whats next?...lol i understand everyones curiosity and wanting to know that this isnt it, our one shot, there has to be more and so on and so on. i was just saying kinda what you confirmed that , that question becomes a search for the proof of "ghosts" (just a term to keep it simple) which still dousnt actually answer the original question. mainly because it still cannot be proven, not just scientifically but also within the paranormal community itself. the variables being just this conversation itself, of half the people believe its negative entities fooling us and the other haf believing its spirits of the deceased, etc.... then there is also the fraud that is so common in all camps of paranormal study, fake psychics, fake ghost hunters and hauntings, frauds in the cryptid field. the limits of scientific knowlege and research. etc... im all for people studying this field, just as i prefer the cryptid side.
i agree that the proof of a soul is needed to be on the path of absolute proof. without a soul there is no conscience, and as pure energy travels only on a straight line, without a conscience or decision making, or self awareness then ghosts could not exist. which is kinda where we ae in the scientific world on the topic...lol
 
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titch2k6

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i agree that the proof of a soul is needed to be on the path of absolute proof. without a soul there is no conscience, and as pure energy travels only on a straight line, without a conscience or decision making, or self awareness then ghosts could not exist. which is kinda where we ae in the scientific world on the topic...lol

Thanks for your input Paulm ;)

I would like to add some other points to this discussion.

There is so much science that we thought we knew about that, as we delve into Quantum Mechanics further, we are finding surprising results that change everything we thought we knew. There are also other scientific studies on the horizon, such as Sub-Quantum Mechanics, that will probably just blow our minds in their revelations.

Energy can be manipulated by both gravity and electromagnetism, which of course, are energy fields in their own right. How do we know that other energy fields do not interfere in other energy fields travel? At this moment in time, we don't, as we do not have the scientific knowledge to determine it. We only know what science tells us is so at our current understanding. We simply do not know about, at this time, all the elements, energies, dimensions and all the other things that are said to make up our Universe as a whole.

In the scientific world, yes I agree with you, 'ghosts' do not exist. I just cannot argue that, as it is a fact. There is no scientific evidence, that can be gained through the scientific method, that can provide evidence. But, is this 'regulated' because of our current level of scientific understanding? Is this because we are still thinking 'inside the box'?

Putting aside the fakes and fraudsters out there that have almost completely destroyed this field of study, there are countless hours of credible evidence out in the world that suggests that 'ghosts' not only exist, but they are more commonplace than we actually think.

Science tells us that there is this thing called the human energy field which has memories, thoughts, feelings and other emotions that exist in energy form - our consciousness is an energy form. It cannot be anything else, as science tells us that everything in our universe is made up of energy. Science also tells us that we cannot destroy this energy - we can neither create it. But science will not go as far as to say that it is even plausible (I am not talking about scientific proof through the scientific method - I'm talking about the acknowledgement of something) for this energy to exist in an 'entity' form in our plane of existence. Why is that?

As in a discussion I had with the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (ASSAP), let me also ask this question: If 'ghosts' definitely, and undeniably, do not exist, then why are there academic organisations (such as the Society for Psychical Research (SPR), run by professors and other noted academics), and agencies (such as the Department of the Paranormal - DoP - a federal executive department branch of the Union of Everett) who actively research and document paranormal activity? We can't have our cake and eat it......

The simple matter of the fact is that nobody can prove where this energy goes - or where it doesn't go. I also believe that there is a clash of interest between science and religion. What would happen to certain areas of our civilisation if science proved that there were such things as 'ghosts' and there were in fact human energy fields existing in our plane of existence? Do we even think that this kind of revelation would be released out to us? It is a bit like an ELE (Extinction Level Event). Does anyone out there actually think any Government would tell us that all life on Earth was going to end and there was nothing that could be done to save us? Or would they just let it happen, letting humanity pass doing what they do every day - going about their lives?

It is a toughie :) People like myself know there is something out there. We have experienced and witnessed it. We have documented it. It can be intelligent and present having a memory. One of the Kindred Spirit episodes with Amy and Adam was an excellent example of this when they requested an entity remember the word 'Apple' and it gave the word back when asked at a different location.

We just cannot prove it in an acceptable scientific form and that will be the conundrum for years to come.

On a final note, and this is not a dig at anyone, purely an observation (so please do not read into this as anything other than what it is), I find it interesting that some people believe in the existence and study cryptids, aliens, UFOs and other phenomena that fall under the paranormal umbrella, yet they cannot believe in the possibility of 'ghosts'. Yes, we have Bigfoot footage, and UFO footage and other things caught on camera. We also do in the world of hauntings. Yet these subject matters are also discredited as there is no scientific evidence, that can be presented by the scientific method, to prove their existence. As a species, we are extremely selective in what we want to believe in.
 
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Paulm

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There is so much science that we thought we knew about that, as we delve into Quantum Mechanics further, we are finding surprising results that change everything we thought we knew. There are also other scientific studies on the horizon, such as Sub-Quantum Mechanics, that will probably just blow our minds in their revelations.
yeah, that is way over my head.

Energy can be manipulated by both gravity and electromagnetism, which of course, are energy fields in their own right. How do we know that other energy fields do not interfere in other energy fields travel? At this moment in time, we don't, as we do not have the scientific knowledge to determine it. We only know what science tells us is so at our current understanding. We simply do not know about, at this time, all the elements, energies, dimensions and all the other things that are said to make up our Universe as a whole.
the other side to the scientific view though is what makes the paranormal, the paranormal..lol... energy reacts a certain way, this we know. all things are energy, this we know. etc... what we cant explain is the mysticism, (if that is even real.) how do you make an entity cross over, and where is this "over" place at...lol. how can we trap an energy in a box, ex. dybbik box, anabelles enclosure, etc... this is the side that is actually i think in question.

as science tells us that everything in our universe is made up of energy. Science also tells us that we cannot destroy this energy - we can neither create it. But science will not go as far as to say that it is even plausible (I am not talking about scientific proof through the scientific method - I'm talking about the acknowledgement of something) for this energy to exist in an 'entity' form in our plane of existence. Why is that?

energy can neither be created nor destroyed. this we know and im not in doubt, but at what level, there has to be a balance in everything that is. so what happens when one form is no longer, and or when one form takes shape. this is the basic belief of reincarnation, when one leaves one enters. etc.... where is the balance and how does it work...lol... i know a long way away from the science side....lol.

As in a discussion I had with the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena (ASSAP), let me also ask this question: If 'ghosts' definitely, and undeniably, do not exist, then why are there academic organisations (such as the Society for Psychical Research (SPR), run by professors and other noted academics), and agencies (such as the Department of the Paranormal - DoP - a federal executive department branch of the Union of Everett) who actively research and document paranormal activity? We can't have our cake and eat it......

i think there will always be organizations and groups to study the psychic side. the rest just go along with the studies. one thing just branches off the other
On a final note, and this is not a dig at anyone, purely an observation (so please do not read into this as anything other than what it is), I find it interesting that some people believe in the existence and study cryptids, aliens, UFOs and other phenomena that fall under the paranormal umbrella, yet they cannot believe in the possibility of 'ghosts'. Yes, we have Bigfoot footage, and UFO footage and other things caught on camera. We also do in the world of hauntings. Yet these subject matters are also discredited as there is no scientific evidence, that can be presented by the scientific method, to prove their existence. As a species, we are extremely selective in what we want to believe in.

actually the bigfoot and cryptid footage is pretty questionable, and with those camps spread now so far apart with all the interdimensional theories its not so different than ghost hunting...lol
good theories though titch, even if over my head and out of my league....lol
 
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Debi

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Totally enjoying this conversation. May I add my 2 cents from a "time" perspective?

I began my journey with the paranormal at age 5...for those of you counting, that would be 63 years ago. (Yes, I'm older than dirt.) What we believed in the paranormal world and were taught waaaay back then has remained basically the same for me, although some of the semantics have changed. What HAS changed is that much of what science said was impossible all those years ago has shifted to possible or even been confirmed.

We can't box in the possibilities just because science hasn't a way to measure something or confirm something yet. In my lifetime I have seen that change over and over again.
 

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Totally enjoying this conversation. May I add my 2 cents from a "time" perspective?

I began my journey with the paranormal at age 5...for those of you counting, that would be 63 years ago. (Yes, I'm older than dirt.) What we believed in the paranormal world and were taught waaaay back then has remained basically the same for me, although some of the semantics have changed. What HAS changed is that much of what science said was impossible all those years ago has shifted to possible or even been confirmed.

We can't box in the possibilities just because science hasn't a way to measure something or confirm something yet. In my lifetime I have seen that change over and over again.
agree. i dont go the scientific route just yet not because i dont think it has answers but because its a long way off from explaining the mystical properties. if that is the right word to even use....lol...just too many gaps to be filled in yet
 

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agree. i dont go the scientific route just yet not because i dont think it has answers but because its a long way off from explaining the mystical properties. if that is the right word to even use....lol...just too many gaps to be filled in yet
I understand that. That gap is getting smaller, but "small" is a relative term when it comes to this stuff! lol

And honestly, some people simply don't need or want the science! Their faith and belief system is all they require. I'm a firm believer in "Whatever works for you...do that!"
 

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This is a great read so far!

The whole "conservation of energy" argument for the existence of the paranormal is one I've used before. Unfortunately it seems to sometimes confuse people more than it informs.

People think of it like the human body is a machine that uses energy, like a car. When a car breaks down the chemical energy in the gas tank and battery that powers the car is still there; but the process for turning that chemical energy into forward velocity is broken. Likewise, when a body "breaks down" the chemicals and organs are still all present but are simply no longer capable of producing life signs. From this point of view the argument kind of falls apart as the store of energy didn't go anywhere it just stopped being converted.

This is why it needs to be stressed that human energy is more than just what's powering breathing or muscle contraction. For lack of a better term it's the mental or emotional energy, which we don't really have a good way to measure or even explain. Theoretically a series of electrical charges could be applied Dr. Frankenstein style to animate a body into performing basic tasks. This would be adding energy into the "mechanics" of the body. However, there's no indication that the right amount of external energy could cause the synapses in the brain to fire off and have the body start telling you memories, it's favorite color, give you a recipe for brownies or make up an original story out of its imagination. We humans have this mental capacity, and while it's physically powered by the breakdown of food into energy there is more to it than just that.

Emotions, imagination, thought itself. These are the things that we don't fully understand in terms of where they come from and how they are formed. These are also the things which seem to be the essence of what determines a spirit or soul. But without the ability to scientifically measure a person's imagination, ego or emotional states then we don't have much to work with in scientifically proving the supernatural.

I often like paranormal studies to how studied natural phenomena such as tornadoes or earthquakes. These are not things that can be brought into a lab nor are they something that can be produced on command for study. They require being in a specific place at a specific time withe the right equipment collecting the right data. People had been experiencing these things for thousands of years before anyone even knew of the existence of barometric pressure or tectonic plates. Likewise people have been experiencing paranormal activity for thousands of years, but we don't know what bit of scientific knowledge we are missing.