Should non-human beings have rights

[JahaRa]

I think I understand what you mean, as humans with the power to set protections, regardless of our standing as creatures, we should make rules that protect all creatures, is that a correct understanding?

Yes. Considering what a "higher being" would expect of us is irrelevant, we have to expect it of ourselves.

 

[Paulm]

Yes. Considering what a "higher being" would expect of us is irrelevant, we have to expect it of ourselves.

but its not actually irrelevant.....you see, a rule book has been written, quite a few actually, and they are not all that different really. if you get to the basics of most they are very similar on how to live and treat the planet. most people just dont want to follow the rules because they interfere in what we want or how we want to act and live. (or because they think they are irrelevant, perhaps)... people's arrogance and desires, ego and thirst for power blinds us to the truth. we know what is right and wrong and we should expect betterment of ourselves. but just throwing the beliefs of a "higher being" out the window and saying it is irrelevant is not the answer, that opens the door more to the troubles we have already caused because we "think" we know more then we actually do.........

 

[JahaRa]

but its not actually irrelevant.....you see, a rule book has been written, quite a few actually, and they are not all that different really. if you get to the basics of most they are very similar on how to live and treat the planet. most people just dont want to follow the rules because they interfere in what we want or how we want to act and live. (or because they think they are irrelevant, perhaps)... people's arrogance and desires, ego and thirst for power blinds us to the truth. we know what is right and wrong and we should expect betterment of ourselves. but just throwing the beliefs of a "higher being" out the window and saying it is irrelevant is not the answer, that opens the door more to the troubles we have already caused because we "think" we know more then we actually do.........

No one ever gets to the basics of those "rule books" that were written by men, by the way, not some higher being. In the beginning those rules were basic, but since then so many have used them and changed them to use as control of large numbers of people, not as rules to ensure the survival of the species, AND none or few of them mention protection animals except for how to properly raise food animals. The closest I have seen getting to the basics is Zen teachings, which does not mention any higher being.

 

[Paulm]

No one ever gets to the basics of those "rule books" that were written by men, by the way, not some higher being.

sure they do, this is a whole forum full of people wishing to learn all they can, which includes a lot of those teachings.

written by men, by the way, not some higher being. In the beginning those rules were basic, but since then so many have used them and changed them to use as control of large numbers of people,

spirituality and religion are two different things. i get the whole thing about organized religion and all, but just because you may have issues with the organizations dousnt mean you have to dismiss all spirituality and beliefs. or say it is irrelevant to somes beliefs. we are all on this path in different places. some are new to it and others have travelled it for a while. to dismiss someones current thoughts or practices is a disservice to them in that they may give up and not find their place in this mixed up world. while we all walk the same path, we at times have to come to our own understandings and realizations of where we are and how things fit together. some of these may change slightly as we go along and the bigger picture comes into view. it is not my place or anyone elses to tell someone where they should be or how to get there. or that what they believe isnt correct, for where they are in life what they believe at that time may be exactly what is right for them....
a lot of teachings instructs on the treatment of animals, nature, etc... and even that we are stewards of the planet and are responsible for its "health"... while Zen and Buddhism may not follow the same structure of a supreme GOD. the Buddha is considered to be a higher being in the sense that he has reached a level of enlightenment that most will never gain. enlightenment is considered a higher level until we finally reach the point of Nirvana..... but that is a very basic example of course....anyways, understanding, love, compassion, is the goal, whatever leads each to that end isnt the focus.

 

[JahaRa]

sure they do, this is a whole forum full of people wishing to learn all they can, which includes a lot of those teachings.


spirituality and religion are two different things. i get the whole thing about organized religion and all, but just because you may have issues with the organizations dousnt mean you have to dismiss all spirituality and beliefs. or say it is irrelevant to somes beliefs. we are all on this path in different places. some are new to it and others have travelled it for a while. to dismiss someones current thoughts or practices is a disservice to them in that they may give up and not find their place in this mixed up world. while we all walk the same path, we at times have to come to our own understandings and realizations of where we are and how things fit together. some of these may change slightly as we go along and the bigger picture comes into view. it is not my place or anyone elses to tell someone where they should be or how to get there. or that what they believe isnt correct, for where they are in life what they believe at that time may be exactly what is right for them....

I never said I dismiss all spirituality and beliefs. I respect other's beliefs and would like the same respect in my beliefs. I am not trying to convert anyone to anything, I just stated my opinion that that "higher being" is not relevant to deciding how we should treat others, and other species. But if you want to discuss the "rules" set down in religous texts, that is a different subject.

I get that you have a different opinion, and it seems my opinion has triggered you, so figure it out, why do you need me to agree with you? Maybe my straight forwardness puts you off, I am not going to change the way I say things because someone will take it wrong. I don't say anything I don't mean and implications that you get from my words are yours, not mine.

 

[Selectric]

Once it is all boiled down to it's basic stew, it's what we individually do that matters...to ourselves. Sure, belief in a higher being can help sort out those decisions, but how we act and project out to others is solely on us. I have always treated others (and animals) how i would like to be treated. Sure, that has worked in most cases, though i have seen where those tend to take advantage of that to their uses. Once people take the blinders off and realize we are all in the same stew together, then they can stop treading water. For me, i am climbing up the steep embankment, but i am moving.

 

[Debi]

And with that, we close the thread and everyone parts friends.

Namaste.