Science and the spiritual / paranormal

[TonyM]

A wee bit of background about me and I'd like to hear your opinions on this. I'm a trained scientist steeped in the empirical method, one of my sister's is too and is a hard atheist and refuses to countenance anything spiritual or paranormal whilst I'm the opposite. I personally don't believe the two view points are mutually exclusive and while I embrace the fact that hard evidence is necessary to prove a scientific point I also believe that a lot of our world can't be explained or filed away in a box (yet).

I know I'm not the only person who has this point of view and there are many reasons why scientists would not cross a line for professional and career reasons. Perhaps am in the position I'm in because of early experiences that left me open to such phenomena and also looking for reasons and evidence. Curious about your thoughts on the science / spiritual debate if there is such a thing.

 

[Debi]

A wee bit of background about me and I'd like to hear your opinions on this. I'm a trained scientist steeped in the empirical method, one of my sister's is too and is a hard atheist and refuses to countenance anything spiritual or paranormal whilst I'm the opposite. I personally don't believe the two view points are mutually exclusive and while I embrace the fact that hard evidence is necessary to prove a scientific point I also believe that a lot of our world can't be explained or filed away in a box (yet).

I know I'm not the only person who has this point of view and there are many reasons why scientists would not cross a line for professional and career reasons. Perhaps am in the position I'm in because of early experiences that left me open to such phenomena and also looking for reasons and evidence. Curious about your thoughts on the science / spiritual debate if there is such a thing.

Oh, there IS such a thing. The debate is even increasing of late.

I'm one who believes that there is EVIDENCE of science beginning to prove the spiritual side of things. With the new work in Quantum physics, science is beginning to prove what we have held as truth for centuries. I also believe we simply don't have the right tools to measure much of what we are trying to prove from a spiritual stand.

Over the years, scientist forget that they have proven themselves wrong on things over and over as they find more evidence of something they once held as fact has changed. They then change their stand and call it no problem they changed their mind as now, once again, their "science" proves something else....which they will faithfully stand by until it changes again. In fact, looking at science alone is a religion by itself. It is a belief system that they hold sacred.

EX: Once upon a time the idea of smudging was thought to be a folly. No evidence it did anything from the scientists. Until recently when it was found it actually does change and cleanse the air from bacteria, etc. Now the scientist will agree that , well, yeah, it does have that effect but hey, still doesn't cleanse spirits (of which they don't believe.) Interesting how as things change in "science", no scientists bring it forth to say "we were wrong." Nope.

 

[TonyM]

Oh, there IS such a thing. The debate is even increasing of late.

I'm one who believes that there is EVIDENCE of science beginning to prove the spiritual side of things. With the new work in Quantum physics, science is beginning to prove what we have held as truth for centuries. I also believe we simply don't have the right tools to measure much of what we are trying to prove from a spiritual stand.

Over the years, scientist forget that they have proven themselves wrong on things over and over as they find more evidence of something they once held as fact has changed. They then change their stand and call it no problem they changed their mind as now, once again, their "science" proves something else....which they will faithfully stand by until it changes again. In fact, looking at science alone is a religion by itself. It is a belief system that they hold sacred.

EX: Once upon a time the idea of smudging was thought to be a folly. No evidence it did anything from the scientists. Until recently when it was found it actually does change and cleanse the air from bacteria, etc. Now the scientist will agree that , well, yeah, it does have that effect but hey, still doesn't cleanse spirits (of which they don't believe.) Interesting how as things change in "science", no scientists bring it forth to say "we were wrong." Nope.

Very interesting Debi. Back in the day trying to raise the subject of the paranormal or even the existence of God would have resulted in at least raised eyebrows and end of conversation.

As I mentioned I never had a conflict so found myself discussing such topics outside of the scientific community. I'm not anywhere near involved as I was years ago but happy the debate is healthy.

 

[Debi]

Very interesting Debi. Back in the day trying to raise the subject of the paranormal or even the existence of God would have resulted in at least raised eyebrows and end of conversation.

As I mentioned I never had a conflict so found myself discussing such topics outside of the scientific community. I'm not anywhere near involved as I was years ago but happy the debate is healthy.

Oh, back in the day they'd want to burn you as a witch! lol

 

[Charleh]

Oh, back in the day they'd want to burn you as a witch! lol

 

[Charleh]

Oh, there IS such a thing. The debate is even increasing of late.

I'm one who believes that there is EVIDENCE of science beginning to prove the spiritual side of things. With the new work in Quantum physics, science is beginning to prove what we have held as truth for centuries. I also believe we simply don't have the right tools to measure much of what we are trying to prove from a spiritual stand.

Over the years, scientist forget that they have proven themselves wrong on things over and over as they find more evidence of something they once held as fact has changed. They then change their stand and call it no problem they changed their mind as now, once again, their "science" proves something else....which they will faithfully stand by until it changes again. In fact, looking at science alone is a religion by itself. It is a belief system that they hold sacred.

EX: Once upon a time the idea of smudging was thought to be a folly. No evidence it did anything from the scientists. Until recently when it was found it actually does change and cleanse the air from bacteria, etc. Now the scientist will agree that , well, yeah, it does have that effect but hey, still doesn't cleanse spirits (of which they don't believe.) Interesting how as things change in "science", no scientists bring it forth to say "we were wrong." Nope.

But now some people are convinced that smudging is..... witchcraft! *gasp!*

 

[Debi]

Thanks to a remarkable 2007 study titled, “Medicinal smoke reduces airborne bacteria,” published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology, we now know that medicinal smoke has the potential to disinfect air of bacteria by 94% in 60 minutes. This bacteria includes staphylococcus lentus, Corynebacterium urealyticum, Curtobacterium flaccumfaciens, Enterobacter aerogenes (Klebsiella mobilis), Kocuria rosea, and more.

Smudging works/Sacred Smoke

 

[Tia]

But now some people are convinced that smudging is..... witchcraft! *gasp!*

I know this is an older post but had to add my comment. Your exactly right Charleh, and if things keep going the way they are right now I'm afraid the "witch hunts" may start again.

EX: There are to many people can't or won't accept others as just being "One Being" that is part of the human race. so Racism is tearing our world apart at the seams. And then we have the fear and the fighting between Religious beliefs to where everybody is in so much fear of one persons nationality that more violence erupts and the killings continue to escalate in the name of religion. Even in the Christian beliefs now different faiths are fighting because X faith believes that Y faith isn't teaching the true gospel the same way they teach their congregations? Really? So in some ways the cycle is already repeating itself.

This is somewhat off topic but it's relevant in the same way. It's a quote by Chief Dan George (Tsleil-Waututh Nation) that goes "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other . If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys."

 

[Charleh]

I know this is an older post but had to add my comment. Your exactly right Charleh, and if things keep going the way they are right now I'm afraid the "witch hunts" may start again.

EX: There are to many people can't or won't accept others as just being "One Being" that is part of the human race. so Racism is tearing our world apart at the seams. And then we have the fear and the fighting between Religious beliefs to where everybody is in so much fear of one persons nationality that more violence erupts and the killings continue to escalate in the name of religion. Even in the Christian beliefs now different faiths are fighting because X faith believes that Y faith isn't teaching the true gospel the same way they teach their congregations? Really? So in some ways the cycle is already repeating itself.

This is somewhat off topic but it's relevant in the same way. It's a quote by Chief Dan George (Tsleil-Waututh Nation) that goes "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other . If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys."

That’s the reason we don’t get caught up with semantics here. We all have our own backgrounds and faiths, and we’d all rather understand one another so ignorance doesn’t dig its claws into this site. We hope to get to hear about some of your stories soon

 

[Tia]

That’s the reason we don’t get caught up with semantics here. We all have our own backgrounds and faiths, and we’d all rather understand one another so ignorance doesn’t dig its claws into this site. We hope to get to hear about some of your stories soon

That's the exact reason I decided to join here, just from poking around for a few days I saw that there was no negativity floating around, and that everyone was open to hearing other peoples opinions and not judging just encouragement and advice.

I'm sorry, I signed in here earlier this afternoon with the intention of posting about my first experience and I got up to check on the baby and answer the phone and when I came back my laptop was doing updates so I was booted off. I have a busy afternoon tomorrow going with my son to look at a house they want to buy. But maybe when I get back I can try then.