Making God gender nuetral

[Debi]

Episcopal Church debates altering the Book of Common Prayer to make it clear 'God is not male' | Daily Mail Online

Is God gender-neutral? Episcopal Church debates altering language in Book of Common Prayer to make it clear 'God is not male'

• The Book of Common Prayer could soon start using gender-neutral language
• They are looking to overhaul the religious book for the first time since 1979
• However, some theologians argue church leaders can use alternative service materials without altering the holy book itself
• Other proposed additions include the Christian duty to look after the planet
• Last year the Church of Sweden asked priests to stop using terms 'Lord' and 'He'
  
  
  

The Episcopal Church could change the wording of its prayer books to make it clear that 'God is not male'.

The Book of Common Prayer, which is used in every Episcopal congregation, could soon start using gender-neutral language when referring to the supreme deity.

The proposed changes, which also include adding same-sex marriages to the liturgy, are being debated in Texas this week

However, some theologians argue that church leaders can use alternative service materials without altering the holy book.

This follows news at the end of last year that the Church of Sweden has asked priests to refrain from using terms like 'Lord' and 'He' in favour of the less specific 'God.'

 

[Debi]

***Bracing myself for your thoughts on this one***

 

[NobleHouse]

***Bracing myself for your thoughts on this one***

 

[Lynne]

I disagree. Strongly! JESUS gave us the Our Father prayer. That’s enough for me to figure it out.

 

[Charleh]

There is God the Father and God the Son. Some argue that the Holy Spirit is feminine as the Hebrew word for the Holy Spirit is a feminine title, but that doesn’t leave any wiggle room for a gender neutral God.

I’m all for an inclusive church to welcome those of different gender identities but that doesn’t mean you get to deface who we know God to be. There’s a point where political correctness needs to stop.

 

[Benway]

The masculine gender itself used to be gender neutral. Ridiculous as it may seem at face value. 'Man' = mankind. 'Woman' = a sub-type of 'man' that gives birth. That's English, but it also applies to Biblical languages and concepts.

If God is all things and all things are God, then how can God be one thing and not the other? Even the name 'God' is shorthand for his actual name, which is pronounced 'Jehovah' by those who do so, but, again, that isn't it as the name is unpronounceable. Even YHWH is shorthand for something which can never be represented by anything less than everything that has been and ever will be.
At least that's how I see it.

As for changing the text... I had a crack at doing my own translation of Genesis 1 and it's really not cut and dried which word or which order they should go in. There are just no direct translations between classical Greek and Hebrew and modern English. Are they 'sea creatures' or 'sea monsters'? 'Swam or swarmed? Both are correct and wrong.
"the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" The word translated as 'Spirit' in the King James here does mean that... and it means breath and wind. The breath of God is also accurate but loses the Spirit. Spirit loses the wind metaphor. Genesis often uses the word God, but it's 'Elohim' in all the original manuscripts. The word rendered as moved has no direct translation. It means 'hover'. It also relates to a nursing mother and to waiting. As noted above, 'Spirit' is a feminine word which ties into the mother and baby theme of the creation here. I took 'brooded' as the closest word, but clearly that isn't perfect. But the (breath/ Spirit of Elohim) / (divine wind) is above the waters (with a connotation of a mother over her baby). Later in the Bible God exhibits masculine characteristics but there's a childbirth metaphor here. And then there's the trinity aspect! Three and one. Spirit is of God and is God.

I picked a really difficult section to illustrate the point, but my point is that we all know the concept of God, and the words in the English language Bible have always been a matter of trying to convey the meaning and not the exact words as that is flat out impossible. As for the gender of God... Elohim is gender neutral and plural!!!! God being One is taken from the context of the rest of the Bible. Is updating the English words translated from other words to fit modern language usage really that big of a deal?

 

[Charleh]

As for the gender of God... Elohim is gender neutral and plural!!!!

It’s a “uniplural noun”, kind of like deer/deer or moose/moose. But it’s also a..... what’s the word.... well anyways it addresses God’s majesty. Same for when God said “let us make man in our image.” When it comes to royalty, let’s say I was writing to someone and I was a king, i might write something under the lines of “we thank you for your correspondence” or whatever even if I am referring to just myself. (I suck at writing letters but trying to articulate a point )

 

[Lynne]

Ben nice analysis job.

For me it’s as simple as just believing. God may have a feminine component but the father reference works. It shows god as a caretaker, provider , and protector. Not that women can’t fill that role but it’s just the traditional idea of a father. From a faith perspective JESUS refered to god in the masculine and that is enough for me.

We can debate the technical aspects of the writings but the heart of their intent is the matter. We may never know exactly.

 

[Paulm]

There is God the Father and God the Son. Some argue that the Holy Spirit is feminine as the Hebrew word for the Holy Spirit is a feminine title, but that doesn’t leave any wiggle room for a gender neutral God.

I’m all for an inclusive church to welcome those of different gender identities but that doesn’t mean you get to deface who we know God to be. There’s a point where political correctness needs to stop.

well said..

 

[Paulm]

The masculine gender itself used to be gender neutral. Ridiculous as it may seem at face value. 'Man' = mankind. 'Woman' = a sub-type of 'man' that gives birth. That's English, but it also applies to Biblical languages and concepts.

If God is all things and all things are God, then how can God be one thing and not the other? Even the name 'God' is shorthand for his actual name, which is pronounced 'Jehovah' by those who do so, but, again, that isn't it as the name is unpronounceable. Even YHWH is shorthand for something which can never be represented by anything less than everything that has been and ever will be.
At least that's how I see it.

As for changing the text... I had a crack at doing my own translation of Genesis 1 and it's really not cut and dried which word or which order they should go in. There are just no direct translations between classical Greek and Hebrew and modern English. Are they 'sea creatures' or 'sea monsters'? 'Swam or swarmed? Both are correct and wrong.
"the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" The word translated as 'Spirit' in the King James here does mean that... and it means breath and wind. The breath of God is also accurate but loses the Spirit. Spirit loses the wind metaphor. Genesis often uses the word God, but it's 'Elohim' in all the original manuscripts. The word rendered as moved has no direct translation. It means 'hover'. It also relates to a nursing mother and to waiting. As noted above, 'Spirit' is a feminine word which ties into the mother and baby theme of the creation here. I took 'brooded' as the closest word, but clearly that isn't perfect. But the (breath/ Spirit of Elohim) / (divine wind) is above the waters (with a connotation of a mother over her baby). Later in the Bible God exhibits masculine characteristics but there's a childbirth metaphor here. And then there's the trinity aspect! Three and one. Spirit is of God and is God.

I picked a really difficult section to illustrate the point, but my point is that we all know the concept of God, and the words in the English language Bible have always been a matter of trying to convey the meaning and not the exact words as that is flat out impossible. As for the gender of God... Elohim is gender neutral and plural!!!! God being One is taken from the context of the rest of the Bible. Is updating the English words translated from other words to fit modern language usage really that big of a deal?

well stated... there has been attempts at translateing or defining these type ideas since the beginning of time I think...poets have tried, artists have tried, its been a way of adding personal touches to all sorts of works and ideas....michelangelo's creation of adam painting does this in a way....the purple background enclosure represents the womb, the flowing scarf is meant to be the cord, and there is a female in the midst who represents eve, even.....and of course the fingers not touching (the space between god and adams fingers) represents the void between man and god....there is much symbolism in this and many works by many ppl. and that is ok, but actually trying to change the bible itself is a little more than just symbolism.