Light at the End of the Tunnel of Covid

Paulm

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I have a question. WHY are there so many people that will not get the vaccine? I am fine with people being free to make decisions for themselves BUT if you refuse the vaccine and then get covid don't expect me to pay your hospital bills. I see the refusal to accept a FREE vaccine to be evolution in action. WHAT is it that these people fear so much that they are willing to not just risk their lives but also seem to happily and willingly carry it to others. ?????
most people who refuse the vaccine look at it as "why put an experimental treatment into your body for a virus that has a 99% survival rate". (yes, even with FDA approval, it is still experimental, no one actually knows the long term effects.) and on top of that you now have articles (on mainstream media sites such as MSN), where scientists are actually now stating, by the numbers, that vaccinated cross overs are more severe and higher death rates than the non-vaxed. israel is having the same wave and numbers we are seeing, and that country is 94% vaxed. those numbers cant be considered crossover's. the question arises "is the vax working on the variants. on one hand they are saying how bad it is and yet on the other they are firing doctors and nurses for refusing the vax, is that really smart in the middle of a pandemic when they are nedded most?... weve been in this for over a year now and have done very little to prepare for this wave. so much could have been changed and new standards set in the medical field but everything remained the same and here we are again unprepared. it boils down to some people will take an experimental drug for anything and some dont see 99% survival as being worth the possible side effects... it should be a personal choice. bring up things like refusing medical care or whos going to pay for it is nonsince. ppl smoke, that kills you, ppl drink, that kills you, should anyone with cancer be refused med care ? should any "habit"or lifestyle be refused care? thats a slippery slope to go down now isnt it?.. these other things WILL kill you at some point, this virus, probably not. but a 99% survival rate dont make headlines........ sorry if ive offended anyone with this view.
 
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most people who refuse the vaccine look at it as "why put an experimental treatment into your body for a virus that has a 99% survival rate". (yes, even with FDA approval, it is still experimental, no one actually knows the long term effects.) and on top of that you now have articles (on mainstream media sites such as MSN), where scientists are actually now stating, by the numbers, that vaccinated cross overs are more severe and higher death rates than the non-vaxed. israel is having the same wave and numbers we are seeing, and that country is 94% vaxed. those numbers cant be considered crossover's. the question arises "is the vax working on the variants. on one hand they are saying how bad it is and yet on the other they are firing doctors and nurses for refusing the vax, is that really smart in the middle of a pandemic when they are nedded most?... weve been in this for over a year now and have done very little to prepare for this wave. so much could have been changed and new standards set in the medical field but everything remained the same and here we are again unprepared. it boils down to some people will take an experimental drug for anything and some dont see 99% survival as being worth the possible side effects... it should be a personal choice. bring up things like refusing medical care or whos going to pay for it is nonsince. ppl smoke, that kills you, ppl drink, that kills you, should anyone with cancer be refused med care ? should any "habit"or lifestyle be refused care? thats a slippery slope to go down now isnt it?.. these other things WILL kill you at some point, this virus, probably not. but a 99% survival rate dont make headlines........ sorry if ive offended anyone with this view.
Well, Paul, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with much you have stated and referenced there, BUT as this is not the purpose of this thread, we're gonna stop the debate right there. Seriously.

This is not a debate thread over mandated/choice etc.
This debate has broken households out there and nope...we are not going there here at the forum. Plenty of other places on the internet to argue that point, guys.

What this thread does is to present news info when it pops up but is more so to support those struggling with all of this emotionally.
 
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Benway

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most people who refuse the vaccine look at it as "why put an experimental treatment into your body for a virus that has a 99% survival rate". (yes, even with FDA approval, it is still experimental, no one actually knows the long term effects.) and on top of that you now have articles (on mainstream media sites such as MSN), where scientists are actually now stating, by the numbers, that vaccinated cross overs are more severe and higher death rates than the non-vaxed. israel is having the same wave and numbers we are seeing, and that country is 94% vaxed. those numbers cant be considered crossover's. the question arises "is the vax working on the variants. on one hand they are saying how bad it is and yet on the other they are firing doctors and nurses for refusing the vax, is that really smart in the middle of a pandemic when they are nedded most?... weve been in this for over a year now and have done very little to prepare for this wave. so much could have been changed and new standards set in the medical field but everything remained the same and here we are again unprepared. it boils down to some people will take an experimental drug for anything and some dont see 99% survival as being worth the possible side effects... it should be a personal choice. bring up things like refusing medical care or whos going to pay for it is nonsince. ppl smoke, that kills you, ppl drink, that kills you, should anyone with cancer be refused med care ? should any "habit"or lifestyle be refused care? thats a slippery slope to go down now isnt it?.. these other things WILL kill you at some point, this virus, probably not. but a 99% survival rate dont make headlines........ sorry if ive offended anyone with this view.
While this isn't the place, I remember the truism that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Far more older people are vaccinated than younger, therefore if everyone is getting infected you would still expect more older people to be critically ill, as younger people were less likely to be critically ill anyway due to being in better health. Any meaningful conclusion must be drawn from comparing the rates from the same age group!
Also even if it was a 99% survival rate (which has dropped a bit), that may sound okay (it doesn't to me!) but take into account being exposed to it over and over and over again and things aren't looking so good. Then divide the risk by everyone you care about or ever have cared about. If it was a one in a hundred chance for each infection, by now chances are that a couple of people I liked would have died already (maybe they have), and it's not over.
A one percent fatality rate for a virus which is everywhere and won't go away without extreme measures is absolutely horrifying and that completely ignores the vastly higher numbers left with organ damage!
Statistics can be twisted to support any view no matter how bananas and should always be treated with caution and the correct context found.
 
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Benway

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I've been a little tetchy, as I've been ill for over a month.... again. I had a bad reaction to my second vaccine shot, which I expected and it was easier than the first time, but then got bombarded with stress and picked up... some virus, which triggered a migraine. I've had a constant headache for the last two weeks and went through a phase of sleeping a lot. I have no idea if it was that AGAIN (it's totally out of control here) but there's the worry that I may be a menace to other people and as I don't have the classic symptoms I can't get a test sent out and it won't stop!
My mum suggested it may be stress. She's probably right. I certainly had a virus, while at a weak point (I can't rule out Covid, as the AZ vaccine takes a few weeks to take full effect and even then only offers about a 60% protection from symptomatic Delta Covid (though does mostly keep us out of hospital or the morgue) and may just have collapsed due to strain.
Still, I'm not enjoying myself and this isn't how I had hoped this summer would be. It was a really nice day today and I went out away from people to a nearby field for some fresh air and sunshine and had one of those things which seemed portentous at first: 36 blackbirds in the field moving around in sub-groups of a dozen on the ground, before flying west, but then a really small black dog with constipation doing a poo, which kind of fits but ruins it somehow.
At least I got out for a bit. My head hurts. I hate this. I'm glad you are all better than I feel.
And do any omen readers have an interpretation of my black animals experience?
 
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I've been a little tetchy, as I've been ill for over a month.... again. I had a bad reaction to my second vaccine shot, which I expected and it was easier than the first time, but then got bombarded with stress and picked up... some virus, which triggered a migraine. I've had a constant headache for the last two weeks and went through a phase of sleeping a lot. I have no idea if it was that AGAIN (it's totally out of control here) but there's the worry that I may be a menace to other people and as I don't have the classic symptoms I can't get a test sent out and it won't stop!
My mum suggested it may be stress. She's probably right. I certainly had a virus, while at a weak point (I can't rule out Covid, as the AZ vaccine takes a few weeks to take full effect and even then only offers about a 60% protection from symptomatic Delta Covid (though does mostly keep us out of hospital or the morgue) and may just have collapsed due to strain.
Still, I'm not enjoying myself and this isn't how I had hoped this summer would be. It was a really nice day today and I went out away from people to a nearby field for some fresh air and sunshine and had one of those things which seemed portentous at first: 36 blackbirds in the field moving around in sub-groups of a dozen on the ground, before flying west, but then a really small black dog with constipation doing a poo, which kind of fits but ruins it somehow.
At least I got out for a bit. My head hurts. I hate this. I'm glad you are all better than I feel.
And do any omen readers have an interpretation of my black animals experience?
Ben, first know I'm sending a big hug your way. You have really had a lot to deal with.

What you are describing may be long hauler's syndrome. It's that ongoing feel like Covid but isn't syndrome that is hitting a heck of a lot of people out there and sticking with them. It actually can cause some brain changes. There's a whole list of symptoms that goes with this and each person may have one from column A and 5 from column B. And now I don't now why I'm writing with this type...new post coming at ya.
 
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OK, I can look up some info for you if you wish. This long haulers is known to be very difficult to deal with and can cause a lot of depression on top of the physical symptoms. Please...tell me what you need and what we can do to help you.

As for the omens, crows signify information coming to you. Maybe this is it?
 

Benway

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Ben, first know I'm sending a big hug your way. You have really had a lot to deal with.

What you are describing may be long hauler's syndrome. It's that ongoing feel like Covid but isn't syndrome that is hitting a heck of a lot of people out there and sticking with them. It actually can cause some brain changes. There's a whole list of symptoms that goes with this and each person may have one from column A and 5 from column B. And now I don't now why I'm writing with this type...new post coming at ya.
The italics match my headache!