The Cryptid debate

Are BF and Dogmen interdimensional or earthly physical beings

  • Interdimensional

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Earthly physical beings

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • I'm still sitting on that fence

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9
Melba's returns, many of them, came back human. As did most other samples that have been submitted. Also, though most of the samples had clear chain of evidence, they weren't all properly collected. I refuse to jump on the 'Let's destroy Melba' bandwagon- she did what she could with the samples and equipment that she had, and, frankly, she did really well. Unfortunately, the project wasn't gone about in the ways that could be relied on with scientific certainty.

And I have come to believe that, yes, there is a conspiracy to discredit credible bigfoot evidence. I tried hard not to believe it for a long time, but the more I see and experience, the harder it is not to believe it. Part of what I see in the discrediting is from reputable researchers who have staked their entire reputations on Bigfoot being one thing or another, so any evidence that disagrees with their views is immediately attacked and discredited. They usually have bands of internet skeptic hounds ready to tear apart anything that looks like evidence. It's like watching the anti-vaxxers attack scientists and doctors who develop and defend vaccines.

As to the is-it-human debate, from Native American stories, we know that the Omah stole women to breed with, and some of those women were able to return to the tribes with their children. That tells me that we're not dealing with another species, just a different humanoid. (Why haven't bones of apes been found? Because they aren't apes.) DNA from multiple sources, from multiple groups, and from multiple regions across the US, tested by different labs, comes back human. Sadly, DNA testing is expensive, and there aren't a lot of follow ups or more intensive testings done. That time is coming, I think, as DNA testing becomes more affordable to small indie research groups. I'd like to see DNA submitted to places like AncestryDNA and 32aneMe to see what they come up with.

One thing I'd also really like to see is for Bigfoot scat samples to be submitted to the Human Microbiome Project. Every summer, researchers come in with multiple samples. The Microbiome Project would be an interesting and affordable way to determine how different the diets represented in the samples are. I have to assume that the gut biome of someone living off road kill, trout, and blackberries has to be very different from someone who lives off of McDonalds and Starbucks.
 
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Melba's returns, many of them, came back human. As did most other samples that have been submitted. Also, though most of the samples had clear chain of evidence, they weren't all properly collected. I refuse to jump on the 'Let's destroy Melba' bandwagon- she did what she could with the samples and equipment that she had, and, frankly, she did really well. Unfortunately, the project wasn't gone about in the ways that could be relied on with scientific certainty.

And I have come to believe that, yes, there is a conspiracy to discredit credible bigfoot evidence. I tried hard not to believe it for a long time, but the more I see and experience, the harder it is not to believe it. Part of what I see in the discrediting is from reputable researchers who have staked their entire reputations on Bigfoot being one thing or another, so any evidence that disagrees with their views is immediately attacked and discredited. They usually have bands of internet skeptic hounds ready to tear apart anything that looks like evidence. It's like watching the anti-vaxxers attack scientists and doctors who develop and defend vaccines.

As to the is-it-human debate, from Native American stories, we know that the Omah stole women to breed with, and some of those women were able to return to the tribes with their children. That tells me that we're not dealing with another species, just a different humanoid. (Why haven't bones of apes been found? Because they aren't apes.) DNA from multiple sources, from multiple groups, and from multiple regions across the US, tested by different labs, comes back human. Sadly, DNA testing is expensive, and there aren't a lot of follow ups or more intensive testings done. That time is coming, I think, as DNA testing becomes more affordable to small indie research groups. I'd like to see DNA submitted to places like AncestryDNA and 32aneMe to see what they come up with.

One thing I'd also really like to see is for Bigfoot scat samples to be submitted to the Human Microbiome Project. Every summer, researchers come in with multiple samples. The Microbiome Project would be an interesting and affordable way to determine how different the diets represented in the samples are. I have to assume that the gut biome of someone living off road kill, trout, and blackberries has to be very different from someone who lives off of McDonalds and Starbucks.
DNA research has came a long way and continues to progress at a very fast rate, soon maybe we will be able to make a break through in this mystery.... I wasn't trying to completely discredit her research, like I said, im not sure if all these claims have come from her or from her followers or the bigfoot groups in general who will use any thing they can get to prove their right.... unfortunately, that proof just hasn't materialized yet. and therefore cant be used.... as far as fossils, your right all have been human, modern human...none predate the first natives, which are modern man.... there has not even been any Neanderthal fossils found in north America, a few years ago there were mammoth fossils found that had possible markings of an earlier species of man, but no actual human fossils, or primate (great ape) have been discovered.... im a believer in bigfoot, but with no fossil record, no photographic evidence, no undisputable evidence, we are still at square one...this is what we have to admit and continue from here.
 
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A lot of the stuff that is said about the Neanderthal is just plain WRONG and I suspect that if Bigfoot is real that he is much like the Neanderthal. First off the Neanderthal could NOT be a different species of hominid. Different species can NOT breed and produce fertile offspring. That is why we don't have catdogs or rabbitrats. even species that are VERY close can't make viable offspring. a donkey and a horse are close but the "mules" that they make are sterile. the same is true of the tiger lion mix. You can get a Liger or a Tigon but like the Mule they are sterile. In order for humanity to still have some Neanderthal genes in our DNA indicating successful interbreeding, the Neanderthals were not a different species they were a different RACE of human.

I guess it is like the original misunderstanding about the first Neanderthal fossil found and even now we don't want to think that something so primitive and different could also have been just a human. It is basically a form of bigotry I suspect. I remember reading how bothered people were when they first started saying that modern man first arose and came out of Africa. It bothered them so much that a guy dug up a fossil in England called the Piltdown Man that proved that man existed in Europe long BEFORE the blacks came out of Africa. People WANTED to believe this so it wasn't really looked at for a long time. After almost 50 years it was determined that the "Piltdown man" was a fabricated fossil made from part Neanderthal and part gorilla. AND radiocarbon dating showed that the gorilla part wasn't even a thousand years old.

People seem both willing and able to deceive THEMSELVES if it is something that they either WANT to believe or conversely don't want to believe. I would not be surprised at all, if Sasquatch is real, that he is more our brother than a distant relative. Even a Chimpanzee has 95% the same DNA as a human and indications are that Sasquatch is a LOT closer to us than that.

The Sasquatch is fully bipedal an ape is not. An ape is many times stronger than a human of similar size because of various physical adaptations to living still at least partially as a climber and tree dweller. With all of that strength no ape is capable of the complex coordination that it takes to actually THROW things. No ape could ever throw a 90 mile per hour fastball. Apes can toss and hurl or sling things but not a powered accurate throw. THAT is just one of the things that lifted man from the animal that was prey to an animal that was a predator. With his increased brain power this "new" trick became protection from larger predators and a new way to kill prey for food.

One of the things that I have noted is that there are lots of reports of Sasquatch throwing things. Monkeys and Apes do this too but with no accuracy or power. Have you noticed that the things that the Sasquatch throws always land near but NEVER hit anybody? If it was just poor accuracy, you would think that at least sometimes he would manage to hit someone. I suspect that the thrown things are not intended to hit or harm. Rather they are warnings or possibly just juvenile mischief. In general there is very little to indicate that Sasquatch is an aggressive or dangerous creature. Every film that I have ever seen of Sasquatch shows them, as soon as they spot you, turning and running away.

Just because you fear something doesn’t make it dangerous or a threat. I don’t know if Sasquatch is real but if he isn’t that opens a different line of wonder. What makes so many people, many of whom gain nothing from it, claim to have seen them? What is there in people that would make so many, all over the world and throughout history, see and describe something that is so similar? I have theories but they are not any easier to prove than just that Bigfoot is real and running in the woods all over the place in North America.
 
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I suspect that if Bigfoot is real that he is much like the Neanderthal. First off the Neanderthal could NOT be a different species of hominid. Different species can NOT breed and produce fertile offspring. That is why we don't have catdogs or rabbitrats. even species that are VERY close can't make viable offspring. a donkey and a horse are close but the "mules" that they make are sterile. the same is true of the tiger lion mix. You can get a Liger or a Tigon but like the Mule they are sterile. In order for humanity to still have some Neanderthal genes in our DNA indicating successful interbreeding, the Neanderthals were not a different species they were a different RACE of human.

if Sasquatch is real, that he is more our brother than a distant relative. Even a Chimpanzee has 95% the same DNA as a human and indications are that Sasquatch is a LOT closer to us than that.

The Sasquatch is fully bipedal an ape is not. An ape is many times stronger than a human of similar size because of various physical adaptations to living still at least partially as a climber and tree dweller. With all of that strength no ape is capable of the complex coordination that it takes to actually THROW things. No ape could ever throw a 90 mile per hour fastball. Apes can toss and hurl or sling things but not a powered accurate throw. THAT is just one of the things that lifted man from the animal that was prey to an animal that was a predator. With his increased brain power this "new" trick became protection from larger predators and a new way to kill prey for food.

One of the things that I have noted is that there are lots of reports of Sasquatch throwing things. Monkeys and Apes do this too but with no accuracy or power. Have you noticed that the things that the Sasquatch throws always land near but NEVER hit anybody? If it was just poor accuracy, you would think that at least sometimes he would manage to hit someone. I suspect that the thrown things are not intended to hit or harm. Rather they are warnings or possibly just juvenile mischief. In general there is very little to indicate that Sasquatch is an aggressive or dangerous creature. Every film that I have ever seen of Sasquatch shows them, as soon as they spot you, turning and running away.

Just because you fear something doesn’t make it dangerous or a threat. I don’t know if Sasquatch is real but if he isn’t that opens a different line of wonder. What makes so many people, many of whom gain nothing from it, claim to have seen them? What is there in people that would make so many, all over the world and throughout history, see and describe something that is so similar? I have theories but they are not any easier to prove than just that Bigfoot is real and running in the woods all over the place in North America.

I adree with you on a lot of points, but there have been numerous stories of sasquatch attacking and killing ppl, or as another stated, raping ppl….. as far as humans and chimps being 95 percent DNA, that is true but there has been no provable bigfoot DNA for comparison, so statement like this cant be made, that is my biggest problem with most bigfoot groups, speculation and theories aren't proof, until they are proven...lol....if bigfoot is real he would also be the first human / great ape species to be nocturnal...and 8 - 10 foot tall..... so actually chimps may still be our closest relative if that is the case......or as close, because he would actually be a different species also...... some species can interbreed, true cats not so much, but only brecause they are more separated by DNA.... but dogs can, wolves, foxes, coyotes and dogs can interbreed with no problem....that is much to do with the species and how they were domesticated over time, so again not a good argument for the long run. a good and viable starting point but must be followed through to the end with all factors considered for an absolute hypothesis or answer......as far as what makes ppl claim to have seen him, I do think they are seeing something, that's what keeps me believing also ,,,some I think are misidentification, and some im not so sure....I have other ideas also, and may type those out later.
 
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Theories are what you have when there aren't enough solid facts to have real knowledge. I have a lot of theories since there are not a lot of hard facts available. To some extent if there is no Sasquatch the question of why there are so many reported sightings becomes about as interesting as the possibility of a living hominid relative of man living in the woods.

Is it possible that Bigfoot is some sort of ancestral memory fragment? The human mind is constantly trying to make order out of things that have no order. There are all sorts of things that we can "see" that don't actually exist as we "see" them. A lot of what we see is an interpretation. Maybe when someone sees something but they don't have a clear look at it, if they are surprised or frightened, their mind puts a shape and face on it that corresponds with that emotion.

Once man reached a certain point in his evolution and became a fully functional tool user his primary preditor and most dangerous adversary became other human types. even today animals are of little threat to the lives of people compared to the threat that other people represent. Babies are born with a few instinctive fears that seem to be remnants from ancestral lifestyles. They have a fear of falling and there seems to be an instinctive fear of snakes. Basically, these are the two biggest threats that a tree-dwelling baby might need to instinctively avoid. Might there also be a deeper later evolved fear that is represented by a human figure that is a lot bigger than them?

If not this then are people so vapid that even well respected and normally responsible and honest people can't resist the desire to lie and garner attention even when that attention may not be beneficial to them. A police person gains nothing by telling this sort of lie. With so many people refusing to believe them it will make you look bad to them.

I know that a lot of people are of questionable mental and moral rigidity. that said I hate to think that there is a deeply-rooted flaw in that many people that would make them tell lies just for attention. what about the ones that make anonymous reports and avoid receiving personal attention?

Questions leading to more questions. LOL, For an inquisitive person such is an irresistible draw.
 
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Is it possible that Bigfoot is some sort of ancestral memory fragment?

I have always liked this idea. It reminds me of the notion of an archetype. I think that there are two things that could come together to form ancestral memories of cryptids: 1) actual encounters; and 2) fossils. Science cannot tell us the exact day compared to human history when a particular hominid that might have the characteristics of Bigfoot went extinct. I have always thought that there could be considerable overlap perhaps for millennia. Fossils could be encountered for millions of years by humans and long after the actual creature went extinct. So these actual encounters and fossil remains combined together informed early human oral history and that is why these memories, in the form of archetypes, stay with us to this day. Archetypes are so powerful that under the right conditions they can result in us perceiving things that are not there in a purely physical sense. And then collectively, by communicating these experiences, the archetypes are reinforced even more.

If not this then are people so vapid that even well respected and normally responsible and honest people can't resist the desire to lie and garner attention even when that attention may not be beneficial to them.

In keeping with this idea of ancestral memory and what preserves and reinforces it, I think in the vast majority of cases, the witnesses are reporting what they perceive to the best of their ability and without any ulterior motives.
 
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Theories are what you have when there aren't enough solid facts to have real knowledge. I have a lot of theories since there are not a lot of hard facts available. To some extent if there is no Sasquatch the question of why there are so many reported sightings becomes about as interesting as the possibility of a living hominid relative of man living in the woods..

I agree the question of why is just as interesting, beliefs and reasoning is just as fascinating as the main topic.

Is it possible that Bigfoot is some sort of ancestral memory fragment? The human mind is constantly trying to make order out of things that have no order. There are all sorts of things that we can "see" that don't actually exist as we "see" them. A lot of what we see is an interpretation. Maybe when someone sees something but they don't have a clear look at it, if they are surprised or frightened, their mind puts a shape and face on it that corresponds with that emotion.
.

May not even have to be ancestral....we are still tought through movies and ghost stories to fear the dark, don't go too deep into the woods or too far away from home....mix that with ancestral instincts and you have a double dose of paranoia.

If not this then are people so vapid that even well respected and normally responsible and honest people can't resist the desire to lie and garner attention even when that attention may not be beneficial to them. A police person gains nothing by telling this sort of lie. With so many people refusing to believe them it will make you look bad to them.

I know that a lot of people are of questionable mental and moral rigidity. that said I hate to think that there is a deeply-rooted flaw in that many people that would make them tell lies just for attention. what about the ones that make anonymous reports and avoid receiving personal attention?

Questions leading to more questions. LOL, For an inquisitive person such is an irresistible draw.

I think today's world of being over dramatic and everyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame can answer that question pretty well...lol.. I think a lot of ppl do give false reports or stories, and some just have the story of something scary in the woods that gets over exaggerated.... But I do think some stories have merit and are truly unexplainable....
 
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I didn't see an ancestral figment eating blackberries. Not sure why an ancestral figment would want to eat blackberries. I mean, I guess if it was a really hungry figment... ;)
 
I didn't see an ancestral figment eating blackberries. Not sure why an ancestral figment would want to eat blackberries. I mean, I guess if it was a really hungry figment... ;)
I thought I saw a bigfoot once eating blackberries.. man, I was excited. made my way back to where I saw them and worked my way to a different viewpoint....only to see it was 2 black bears... one had stood up to "spy" the surroundings just as I had gone by and that was what I saw....disappointed I didn't get the pic of a lifetime but was really cool just the same to see the bears.... and made for a good memory,.. not saying your experience was mis-identification or anything, I do believe ppl are seeing something, just wish we could get the proof needed... as far as the ancestral memories and such, that is just a theory in general to wonder about since no proof has been found.... got to cover all the bases...lol... (things that can be proven or are known... not things that are not yet even know if possible...ahmmm, interdeminsional...).. so not saying your experience is not true or any single experience of anyone, I love hearing ppl's stories and would not dismiss them outright without a good reason. but questions have to be asked to get to the answers. like my statement above about being programmed from movies and stories to fear the unknown, we sometimes "see" something as a result of heightened senses..... a good example of this type programming are these legends themselves, in the middle ages up until recent history ppl feared werewolves, (monsteres in the woods) that fear slowly changed to bigfoot in the 70's through movies...we just watched a movie here on pnf a couple weeks ago called blackwater beast, I think...(thanks Bob, great movie) that movie was about bigfoot but could have just as easily been a werewolf flick..slow shift to what ppl are programmed to see.... now the werewolf legend is being brought back to the front with the stories of dogmen....bigfoot seems to have run his course and ppl need something else to fear...
not trying to dismiss anyones accounts but these are ways ppl get scared and "see" what they have been taught, (programmed) to fear... so I do think a lot are mis-identifications or just fear altogether...while there are the few that are real sightings of something not yet explainable.
if you don't mind sharing your story of the sighting I, and im sure the others would love to hear it.
 
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I would love to actually see a cryptid creature. To me, it would be like seeing an angel or having a near-death experience that left no doubt about life after death. It would be magical for me.

I will say that I find it hard to believe that there are Sasquatch's running all over the place all over the US. If there were that many of them surely by now one would have stepped out in front of a truck and met Jesus. The fact that this hasn't happened nor has a crazy shot one and dragged it out of the woods indicates to e that they are extremely rare and probably smart and sneaky as hell. If that is true and they do exist but are very rare then what in the world are people seeing all over the place from coast to coast year after year?

I think a lot is going on here. I have seen a UFO up close and undeniable. That does not mean that I believe every story of every person that has been picked up and taken for a visit to Mars or Venus.
 
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