Science and Buddhism

Debi

Owner/Admin
Staff
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
241,474
Reaction score
233,980
Points
315
Location
South of Indy
Science and Buddhism agree: There is no "you" there

Science and Buddhism agree: There is no "you" there
As neuroscience has begun studying the mind, they have looked to those who have mastered the mind. University of British Columbia researchers have verified the Buddhist belief of anatta, or not-self.

Evan Thompson of the University of British Columbia has verified the Buddhist belief of anatta, or not-self. Neuroscience has been interested in Buddhism since the late 1980s, when the Mind and Life Institute was created by HH Dalai Lama and a team of scientists. The science that came out of those first studies gave validation to what monks have known for years — if you train your mind, you can change your brain. As neuroscience has begun studying the mind, they have looked to those who have mastered the mind.

While Buddha didn't teach anatta to lay people, thinking it might be too confusing, the concept is centered on the idea that there is no consistent self. The belief that we are the same one moment to the next, or one year to the next, is a delusion. Thompson says that “the brain and body is constantly in flux. There is nothing that corresponds to the sense that there's an unchanging self."

[W]hen there is no consistent self, it means that we don't have to take everything so personally.

It is useful to look at a video of yourself from the past, or read something you wrote years ago. Your interests, perspective, beliefs, attachments, relationships, et al, have all changed in some way. Anatta doesn't mean there's no you; it just means that you are constantly changing, constantly evolving, and shape-shifting. Why is this important? Why does it matter if there's no solid “you" or “me"?

Dr. Rick Hanson, author of Hardwiring Happiness and Buddha's Brain, argues that when there is no consistent self, it means that we don't have to take everything so personally. That is, our internal thoughts are only thoughts and don't define us. External events are only external events and aren't happening to us personally. Or as Tara Brach says, our thoughts are “real, but not true."

There is tremendous liberation in not identifying ourselves with thoughts, or a set idea of who we are. It is then that we can grow and change, with the help of neuroplasticity. There is then hope that we can overcome our vices or bad habits (of mind and body), because if we aren't stuck with the self-limiting beliefs inherent with a consistent self, we may orient ourselves toward becoming more of who we want to be.

The belief that we are the same one moment to the next, or one year to the next, is a delusion.

As science and Eastern thought continue to hang out with each other, there may be more 21st Century studies to back up 2,600-year-old thoughts. But, as HH Dalai Lama said, “Suppose that something is definitely proven through scientific investigation. ... Suppose that that fact is incompatible with Buddhist theory. There is no doubt that we must accept the result of the scientific research."

Hearing a pro-science stance from a religious leader is a relief to many. In the end it seems Buddhism and neuroscience have similar goals: What is this thing we call the mind, and how can we use it to make ourselves a little less miserable and a little happier? Maybe even just 10 percent happier, as Dan Harris wrote. If there is no consistent self, it is at least my intention that my ever-changing self be equanimous and, well, 10 percent happier. No matter who I am.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paulm
77379709_2608201029248106_7915752123847933952_n (Small).jpg
 
I learned something from this. I always thought of Buddhism as a religion. Seeing it as a practice to live a better life and being able to keep my Christian Faith is very enlightening !
 
I would agree in principle that there is no immutable 'I', that is neither in a subjective sense nor objectively in the sense that 'I' could be correlated to some specific area of the brain or clearly defined neurological process. But can any argument be made that there is not a deep thread of consistency in our sense of who we are? Certainly we are not Jekylls and Hydes. The difficulty here, as always it seems, is translating these notions into some form of beneficial behavior change. The article states that "There is tremendous liberation in not identifying ourselves with thoughts, or a set idea of who we are. It is then that we can grow and change, with the help of neuroplasticity. There is then hope that we can overcome our vices or bad habits (of mind and body), because if we aren't stuck with the self-limiting beliefs inherent with a consistent self, we may orient ourselves toward becoming more of who we want to be." Sure. Sounds great. But I would argue that beneficial behavior change takes much more than an intellectual grasp of this concept simply on the basis that if that is all it took we would see more evidence of it. The article thus leaves me disappointed in this regard because there is no accompanying and well-defined recipe for achieving the experience of anatta and how to leverage that experience into achieving positive behavior change.
 
I would agree in principle that there is no immutable 'I', that is neither in a subjective sense nor objectively in the sense that 'I' could be correlated to some specific area of the brain or clearly defined neurological process. But can any argument be made that there is not a deep thread of consistency in our sense of who we are? Certainly we are not Jekylls and Hydes. The difficulty here, as always it seems, is translating these notions into some form of beneficial behavior change. The article states that "There is tremendous liberation in not identifying ourselves with thoughts, or a set idea of who we are. It is then that we can grow and change, with the help of neuroplasticity. There is then hope that we can overcome our vices or bad habits (of mind and body), because if we aren't stuck with the self-limiting beliefs inherent with a consistent self, we may orient ourselves toward becoming more of who we want to be." Sure. Sounds great. But I would argue that beneficial behavior change takes much more than an intellectual grasp of this concept simply on the basis that if that is all it took we would see more evidence of it. The article thus leaves me disappointed in this regard because there is no accompanying and well-defined recipe for achieving the experience of anatta and how to leverage that experience into achieving positive behavior change.
the "I" is referring to the ego, learning to drop the ego, the I, the thoughts of self fulfillment and instead working for the betterment of the world as a whole... it is said that ppl wear three masks, its about shedding those masks and being who we truly are, our true selves... not what you want ppl to see or think but the true "you".... that will make you a better person......the reason we don't see more evidence of it is because everything ppl do is for themselves, they go for jobs just for the money, for the luxury, for the prestige, for the acclaim, awards, trophies etc..... the ego., as long as ppl want the self fulfilling reward nothing will ever change.......the philosophy of the selfless act is a good start to ponder on.
 
the "I" is referring to the ego, learning to drop the ego, the I, the thoughts of self fulfillment and instead working for the betterment of the world as a whole...
I think that I would appreciate these types of articles more if they were expressed in such terms and how science lends itself to achieve these noble ends.

it is said that ppl wear three masks
I was hoping that you'd have listed them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paulm
I was hoping that you'd have listed them.

the face you show to the world, the face you show to your friends and family, and the face you never show, the true reflection of who you are....... if you can peel away to this face, then you have nothing to hide and can then be who you are truly meant to be, with no reason to make excuses or expectations to live up to, the world is open for greatness of the light, if you have to make excuses or hide things, they are of the dark..."( which is usually all ego based) (but that is a lot deeper than this article delves into, which is also why this, annata, isn't or wasn't taught to the average ppl....can take years to fully understand or grasp....(usually in a flash of satori....)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lynne
the face you show to the world, the face you show to your friends and family, and the face you never show, the true reflection of who you are....... if you can peel away to this face, then you have nothing to hide and can then be who you are truly meant to be, with no reason to make excuses or expectations to live up to, the world is open for greatness of the light, if you have to make excuses or hide things, they are of the dark..."( which is usually all ego based) (but that is a lot deeper than this article delves into, which is also why this, annata, isn't or wasn't taught to the average ppl....can take years to fully understand or grasp....(usually in a flash of satori....)

Those are the very aspects of ourselves that science is virtually helpless to represent or explain. And from which it naturally follows, and of course explains, why there is no technology of mind. Perhaps those making the most progress along these lines are those Buddhist practitioners.

Just yesterday I can across a quote by Bertrand Russell: "The sciences have developed in an order the reverse of what might have been expected. What was most remote from ourselves was first brought under the domain of law, and then, gradually, what was nearer: first the heavens, next the earth, then animal and vegetable life, then the human body and last of all (as yet very imperfectly) the human mind."
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paulm
Sorry to have to disagree with the above.

Buddhism is a religion, with some philosophical thoughts as well. Look up the Buddhist "Hell". Notice how many different levels of hell, and the punishments in each level.

People pray to the numerous different gods for specific help.

Buddhist Temples are so numerous and you would be surprised at the amount of worshipping that takes place.

Ancestor worship is also a major part of Buddhism.

A person needs to have spent many years living there and speaking the language fluently to even get a grasp of both Buddhism and Taoism. Most Chinese believe in a combination of the two religions.